(no subject)

[tiggz]

i tend to stay out of political debates. mostly because no good ever really comes out of them, but also because it really is impossible to change someone's mind about who they support and why. that being said...i did want to post this one thing.

i have a friend who just made a post asking for people who believe that Obama is the anti-Christ to let her know so she can remove them from her flist, which is totally her right. not gonna argue that. however, i have seen much worse from some of the Democrats on my flist about the Republicans and Bush, specifically. i think in general, people are completely cool with reading Bush is Satan in disguise and even agreeing with the sentiment where as if i were to post that Obama is a tool, people would be all over me. see the disconnect there?

personally? i can't stand either candidate and i doubt very much that i will be voting at all this year because there's not even a candidate i'm willing to sacrifice my time for to vote against. neither candidate has shown me that they are looking out for me or my hot button topics and i have no interest in supporting them. so there you go.

i went through some pretty crappy stuff four years ago during the elections and lost some friends. so i'd really rather not let politics get in the way of what we have going here. i'm perfectly capable of being friends with people from both sides. however, if you feel the need to defriend me over politics, have at it. i'll still be here. posting about things that don't matter(oh fandom, never change!) and loving every minute of it.

Comments

[miniglik.livejournal.com]

Uhg. People and politics.

I have only defriended someone over politics once, and that was when one of my flisters, in a much longer post, made the comment that our soldiers are no better than terrorists. And, at the time, my husband had been in Iraq for 10 months. Which I doubt she knew because I don't think she ever read my stuff. Better either way... I'm sure it was more important to her to get to say her little comment.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

wow. some people really should think before they speak...or type in this instance.

i'm thankful for people like you and your husband who sacrifice quite a lot to keep people like me safe. please let him know i said so and thank him for serving.

[dachelle.livejournal.com]

I really wasn't trying to start a debate or anything. As you know, I very rarely discuss politics in my LJ, though I think most people know my views. I knew that the person in question was a conservative when I friended her, and that really didn't make any difference to me. However, I just can't feel comfortable with someone reading my LJ who believes that the candidate I support is the anti-Christ and that I, by extension, support the anti-Christ. I struggled with the decision to defriend her all morning, but in the end, I couldn't get past that. If she had posted that Obama is a tool, I'd disagree, but fair enough. The anti-Christ thing just pushed it way over the line for me.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

i think you kind of missed where i said that i've seen people compare Bush to Satan, which is pretty much the same thing as the anti-Christ. as a person who voted for Bush(twice!), i didn't and don't feel like people are telling me that i'm a Satan worshipper. they don't like him, they don't like how he's run the country and i agree, to a certain extent. i mean, i think Tom Cruise is a certifiable nutjob, but i don't think people who are fans and/or support him are. you see what i'm getting at?

i don't know your friend, but i think people tend to say the most dramatic thing when they're in the heat of the moment. it tends to get the point across better. she/he may very well think Obama is the anti-Christ, but i sincerely doubt they think you are by extension. i just really hate to see friendships ended by one facet of a person's belief/interests. if i were only friends with people who shared my outlook on politics, i'd probably be able to count those people on one hand.

anyway...i didn't really want to start anything, which is why i didn't comment in your journal. i like less important drama. you know, like kittens threatening the lives of television writers.

[dachelle.livejournal.com]

It wasn't a person I had become close to or met, so it was kind of a different situation. It was someone who I knew through a fandom I'm no longer in with whom I share a few interests and rarely trade comments with. I have quite a few people on my flist who I would not really consider to be "friends" - it would have been a different situation if it was someone I knew well. Also, she had disabled comments, which troubled me. I didn't feel comfortable having the person on my flist anymore. I come to LJ to get away from attitudes like that - believe me, if I want to hear Obama called the Anti-Christ, I can just walk downstairs at my work. I don't really need it on LJ.

And I didn't miss that part, but I wasn't sure how it applied to me. I have not called Bush Satan, and would find that unacceptable in my journal as well. I stopped listening to the morning show on the sports radio station I listen to when they began discussing Sarah Palin in a misogynist way, because I found that offensive and don't believe it has any place in politics. So I didn't think I was being hypocritical by stating my opinion about what this person did, or asking anyone who genuinely held that opinion to please remove me from their flists.

Honestly, I didn't expect to defriend anyone else, and wouldn't based on politics alone. It was the way this person expressed her views that troubled me, and I just wanted to blow off a little steam about what had happened.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

ahh...i understand about separating yourself from a casual acquaintance. especially if you don't really have anything else in common anymore. i'm glad to hear it wasn't a more substantial friendship. disabling comments almost always seems passive aggressive to me. it always does when someone is posting something potentially explosive. so i get wanting to rant about it. i would have done the same.

you're right, you haven't ever called Bush Satan or anything of the kind. i was just trying to explain that i've been dealing with that kind of thing for a good 5 years or so and that i'd become pretty desensitized by it.

i know i appreciate your sensitivity when discussing things like this. getting angry and spiteful doesn't really get anyone anywhere. so thanks for not jumping on my case for making this post. i honestly did not want to start a big "thing", i just had a gut reaction when i read your post and wanted to share my feelings.

[betta329.livejournal.com]

*hugs* people get too uptight about politics. the people's vote doesn't matter, it hasn't mattered in the last two elections, it's all about electoral college.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

people do get uptight about politics, but it is understandable considering these people are running our country. personally, i think all politicians are dirty and the public is completely ignorant to have let it get as bad as it's gotten with them.

[tlace.livejournal.com]

AMEN! To all of it and I'm TOTALLY with you!!! I'm SWIMMING in a sea of doubt and fear in terms of who to vote for and my FL EXPLODES with hate on a daily basis and I guess I'm just not that hate-filled or that passionate about either option so all it does is make me feel oogy and is probably why I've been sort of avoidy lately... I digress...

So it's you and me kid!! We'll hang out here just NOT talking about it, it'll be fun ;) I VOTE FANDOM!!

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

awesome! i much prefer hating on fictional characters! ;)

[kaymyth.livejournal.com]

There are lots of reasons I vote Democrat, most of which have to do with my highly liberal stance on most social issues. And while I truly do believe in Barack Obama and his ideals, I don't have a problem with folks who think he's just another politician.

I have a problem with somebody calling anyone the antichrist or spawn of satan or evillest fucker who ever evilled an evil who hasn't, y'know, gone on a crazed shooting rampage or something. I disagree vehemently with Dubya's ideals and policies, but I don't think he's evil. I just think he's an idiot. Which is totally my opinion and not required to be agreed with by anybody. :)

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

i do think he's just another politician, but i appreciate people who can not only accept that i have an opinion, but also be okay to agree to disagree.

honestly? like i was saying to dachelle, i think people tend to say the most dramatic thing to get their point across and calling someone the anti-Christ or the Spawn of Satan is pretty damn dramatic. so i get it, but don't agree with it.

[ducky01.livejournal.com]

I remember the politics in the last election getting pretty nasty, too. Didn't you and I have a discussion on how it wasn't so much the politics as the blatant disrespect for the candidates that was annoying us? I'm seeing that happening (again) in this election. Comparing ANY candidate to the anti-Christ just kind of goes beyond the pale for me. I'd be curious to debate with the person who did claim that Obama is the anti-Christ. I'd love to know who her sources were for this information, because my Bible doesn't tell me anything of the kind. It also doesn't say McCain is the anti-Christ, or Bush, either.

Well, like my grandpaw always said, "Opinions are like a**holes, everybody's got one." Of course, I'm never going to defriend anyone over politics, 'cause I love you all too much to blow a friendship over some guy who's not going to be in charge for longer than eight years, anyway.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

*smoooooooooch* i kinda ♥ you, ducky.

[sweetcheri.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't defriend you over politics. Hell, I am pretty much middle of the road most of the time anyway, but to some I am WAY too conservative. I tend to keep my political opinions quiet just because it could stir up problems between me and people on my flist. Politics is not worth losing friends over IMO. :)

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

completely agree. *hugs*

[kibarika.livejournal.com]

I remember the troubles of four years ago, especially your conflicts with some friends. I remember some people said some things that really appalled me, and it was a difficult decision whether or not to remain friends with them. (In the end, I think my choice was to remain friends with them and stay very carefully away from the subject of politics.)

I hope you are able to avoid this sort of a mess during this election.

Take care.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

i actually went back and re-read some of that stuff after i posted this. still can't believe some of things that were said four years later.

i hope i am too. thanks. :)

[cashmerepett.livejournal.com]

As you know, I certainly respect you and your opinions--though they differ from my own.

You are right up there with my twin sister, by the way. My own political leanings are very different than my closest loved ones so I do try to not go insano, when I can avoid it.

Your beliefs are as important to you as mine are to me and that is what democracy is all about. I hope if I was ever thoughtless enough to offend you, that you'd tell me and it wouldn't end our online friendship.

Politics isn't worth losing that.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

politically, it takes quite a bit to offend me. when politics turn personal is where things get sketchy for me. i usually try to hold my tongue as long as possible because politics really aren't that big of a deal to me. so, no. you haven't offended me. as long as you don't call me ignorant or uninformed for voting the way i do, we're cool. *g*

love the icon!

[cashmerepett.livejournal.com]

Ha! You're ANYTHING but uniformed and ignorant!!

I actually NEED people like you around me. It's too easy to preach to the choir or surround yourself with such likeminded folks that you fall into a loop where you feel all righteous, rather than right.

It's dangerous and it can cause intolerance, which is something I'd like to avoid.

[bratalie.livejournal.com]

I think I've said a few bad things about Bush, not because he's Republican, but rather because I just don't like him but... I would never hate someone if they were a Republican or had valid reasons for liking Bush. It's just personal preference. :D

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

which is totally fine. i definitely don't agree with everything Bush has said or done over the past 8 years and i understand a lot of people's frustration with him.

[faithfulpuppy85.livejournal.com]

dude. I don't know if Obama's the antichrist but I'm not voting for him. I've posted some anti-Obama things in my lj and i've lost lj friends because of them, but what i've posted is my opinion, well they're email forwards that I kind of believe, but still. It was their choice for defriending me and their loss of a good interesting friend. Simply stated, I'm voting for McCain because Obama supports things that I could never get behind and those things have nothing to do with politics.

[austin154.livejournal.com]

posting about things that don't matter(oh fandom, never change!) and loving every minute of it.
You and me both sister! If nothing we do matters, then the only thing that matters is...

yeah, something like that. ;)

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

see icon! ;)

[austin154.livejournal.com]

No, see this icon.

[lizzelda.livejournal.com]

No such luck, m'dear. I enjoy your posts too much to defriend you. You're outta luck. :) But I don't post too much about politics on LJ. Some of my friends do, and they usually tend to agree with me. I have had a friend post opinions that I strongly disagreed with, but she presented them as her opinions and asked that people not try to convince her otherwise. And they were incredibly opposite from mine so I tried to ignore them because knowing that about her made me a little uncomfortable. If she made lots of posts like that, I'd probably defriend her, but she usually posts non-partisan fannish type stuff, which is way more cool. :)

It's weird, because I've usually lived in places where people share similar opinions (specific to politics, at least). So sometimes it's easy to forget that people exist with different opinions. And then you move someplace or meet new people who have different opinions and you start talking and whooops! Someone is offended. I've done that in the past (accidentally) and felt awful. And the web is just this huge anonymous place where it's too easy to spout off your private opinions and not worry/notice/care if they offend someone. I try really hard not to do that now, so my LJ stays (pretty much) politic-free.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

heh. i'm the opposite in that i'm surrounded by people daily who don't really share my opinions on various things.

in any case, glad you'll still be here. :) let fandom ring!

[aka-becker.livejournal.com]

I'm the only non-Republican in my family (mostly trad Repubs, but one super right wing scary person-Mom), so I don't de-friend people for not agreeing with me. But there is a difference between not liking a candidate for what they stand for or if they say one thing and do another (which is most of my Palin issues), and then calling any of them the Anti-Christ or calling Obama a Muslim or people who continue to spread flat out lies as facts. (Taking quotes out of context is annoying but not quite lying)

Actually I believe I've only ever defriended one person and that was after she posted about how she thought cutting was wonderful and great and lovely, though it is possible she defriended (after moving out of town) me saving me the hassle.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

well, i'm glad to have you here. even if most of your entries are about politics that i don't agree with. ;)

[aka-becker.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping that my posts will return to their usual meaninglessness after the elections. ;)

[carpedi7.livejournal.com]

Well after the debacle 4 years ago you know my feelings on the subject and I will definitely be taking an even longer LJ sabatical the closer the election gets, since last time I almost lost a lot of friends over the whole issue and I just don't want to deal with that. I will still look forward to your fun fandom postings though.

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

longer sabbatical might not be a bad idea. though honestly, it hasn't been at all vitriolic for me, personally. that's a major improvement.

[rachelmack.livejournal.com]

can't stand either candidate and i doubt very much that i will be voting at all this year because there's not even a candidate i'm willing to sacrifice my time for to vote against. neither candidate has shown me that they are looking out for me or my hot button topics and i have no interest in supporting them. so there you go.

Heh, if it helps you at all, I can't stand either of 'em, either. How far we've come since 2004! *L*

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

indeed. heh.

[janni518.livejournal.com]

I'll post gently mocking youtube vids but I shy away from actual discussion in this kind of forum. No good ever comes of it.

Besides apparently I'm a socialist so no one wants to talk to me anyway. lol

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

*shuns you*






*smooooooooooch*

[halfrek2.livejournal.com]

you kinda rock. *nods*

i find it interesting that so many on your FList commented about not liking either candidate. right there with you all.

i am so personally aggravated by the direction taken by each party and candidate that i am meh! about this whole election.

so, fandom wars...it's what is worthy of our time. ;) btw, icon is of a character who is an angel of the lord to counter any comments about anti christ or satan. bwahaha

[libkitty.livejournal.com]

I need to bite my tongue (my fingers?) from time to time with stuff on my flist, and I imagine folks do the same for me. Although it's important to have some commonality, having friends who all believe the same thing can be boring. So, I'll keep you on my flist if you keep me on yours, and let me know if I get too obnoxious.

[foundserenity.livejournal.com]

I've been checking into LJ only intermittently lately, and part of that has to do with all the election craziness. It doesn't bother me that the majority of my flist disagrees with me, but I'm just so sick of politics at this point. November can not come fast enough.

[mariahgem.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was wondering if I might be able to friend you for your outlook on politics! I saw your comment on daintress' page, and I always like adding friends to my flist who have nice comments I can relate to!

[tiggz.livejournal.com]

heh...this is probably a first that someone wants to friend me for my political views. in any case, welcome! i don't post as much as i should or would like, but you are welcome to join my ramblings.